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TTF
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Record Label Scum
I thought some of you hateful fucks might appreciate this article. What's the difference, though, between getting fucked by a big label or shitbags
like Met and John Dudeck?
The Problem With Music
by Steve Albini
Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench,
about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends,
some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a
contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's
eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they
struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other
under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I
think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke". And he does of course.
Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A & R" rep who can present a comfortable face to
any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire." because historically, the A & R staff would select artists to record music that
they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly. These guys are universally young [about the same
age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave.
Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and
Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and
other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well. There are several
reasons A & R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip to the current musical "scene." A more
important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll
experiences. The A & R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better
to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with
a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably
even believes it. When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when
they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast.
By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle
aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A & R guy, the band will say to
themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he
was hired.
These A & R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states
some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on. The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding
little memo, is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band signs it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal
with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred
other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength. These letters never have any terms of expiration, so
the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another laborer or even put
out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of
intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.
One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all," A & R rep, on the
basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises [something he did with similar effect to another well-known band], and
so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A & R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points,
or possibly both, before he would consider it. The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making
their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity. There's this band. They're pretty
ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a
distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label. They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so
they can have some security you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus -- nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work.
To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure,
but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyways, it doesn't cost them anything if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing
isn't much! One day an A & R scout calls them, says he's 'been following them for a while now, and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just
"clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time. They meet the guy, and
y'know what -- he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands.
He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the
right attitude.
They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot. The A & R guy was full of great ideas, even
talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question-he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus
three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or
they can have just anybody record it (like Warton Tiers, maybe-- cost you 5 or 7 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2
points. It was a lot to think about. Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been
serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his
blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself.
Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children--
without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties.
Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a
lawyer--one who says he's experienced in entertainment law and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's
seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be great royalty: 13% [less a 1O% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were
only getting 12% less 10? Whatever. The old label only wants 50 grand, an no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're
signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's
advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter million, just for being in a rock band! Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially
the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so
they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the
lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money. Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can
maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy
some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody In the band and
crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid
only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more
comfortable and will play better.
The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on T-shirt sales! ridiculous! There's a gold mine here!
The lawyer Should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe. They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks
thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo. They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come
in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old "vintage" microphones. Boy, were they
"warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment
on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm." All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the
album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies! Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are: These figures are
representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life
examples more than abound. income is bold and underlined, expenses are not.
Advance: $ 250,000
Manager's cut: $ 37,500
Legal fees: $ 10,000
Recording Budget: $ 150,000
Producer's advance: $ 50,000
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000
Net royalty: $ -14,000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Record company income:
Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on
royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The
next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never
"recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already
been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to
count money like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already this fucked.
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Killthehumans
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i remeber this article was in Maximum rock and roll in like '97 or something ...only good article MRR ever put out
just take a look at the papers
your leaders
they\'re killers
they\'re liars
what they do in your
name to make the bodies pile higher
the murders, the terror
they\'ve done it forever
as we sit band and smile
at the script they sell us
but now the victims, they\'re rising
their numbers\'s multiplying
they want their revenge for the years
that they\'ve been dying
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ENDERA.x
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insane. insane.
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gavin
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met...oy vey
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tireironsaint
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I've read that article a few times in a few different places and it never fails to make me feel sick, especially when I realize that our country is
run in pretty much the same way....
So what's the story on Met? That's the guy from Too Damn Hype and Dare To Defy, right? I've never heard about issues with him, but I'm kinda removed
from a lot of the scene gossip.....
Veritas odium parit
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BDx13
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MET, KING OF THE WHITE PEOPLE!
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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newbreedbrian
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yea good stuff there. ive got that MRR. it was the major labels issue from 94. really good issue and a classic cover of someone with a gun in their
mouth. that left a lasting impression on me
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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TTF
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To his credit, Met's biggest crime was incompetence (and bad taste). He always made sure he got paid first, though. For the Starkweather-Crossbearer
album I believ we recieved one check for a little over $700. Now I'm no mathematician, and I'm no million selling artist, but fuck, I know that thing
still sells a little bit to this day, and it was released over a decade ago. Record label people should be hunted like deer.
Dudeck is a different story and one that I won't get into. Lets just use this example. Starkweather-Into the Wire recording budget=$1,200. Payment
for over 10,000 albums sold=$1,300 in MERCHANDISE. Next release: Overcast. Recording budget=$10,000. Where do you think he got the fucking money???
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jonnynewbreed
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Getting payed for you're music is a funny thing. We've released records with labels in the past...payed for everything and we've been given this
fucking story as to why there is no money for us.
Having said all that Thorp has given us everything they said they would and more. Now we aren't getting rich by any stretch, but when was the last a
label actually followed through with what they said they would.
Thanks Thorp for bringing some fucking integrety back into this twisted business.
Fuck you, Fuck you, Fuck you...you're cool, i'm out!!
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TTF
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Yeah my rant definitely wasn't directed at the label who's board I use and abuse. $10,000 to record an album is a ridiculous amount. We could record
at least 2 complicated albums with that much money.
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gavin
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what the fuck would one use the $10,000 for?
we took our time last time we went in and we spent all of almost $700
you better be JOURNEY spending that much bread
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clevohardcore
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wow just wow.
Now I feel better for being in sucky bands and never making it.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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TTF
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There's something to be said for being in sucky bands and never making it. If making it means having to sit across from jamie jasta and pretending
that I like him then i'll take failure. If making it means polishing tony brummels knob so i can have relentless commercials of my band played on
mediocre swedish metal, uh, i mean headbangers ball then i'll take failure. if making it means toning things down ,shortening songs, or making songs
that sound like NIN (yeah that's a thinly veiled DEP dig) then i'll take failure. Keep on failing, clevohardcore, you'll be in good company.
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newbreedbrian
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nicely said.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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MyOwnWay
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About to become very unpopular....
I'm not saying that all labels are angels, but I blame different bands for this as well. Depending on the situations and scenarios bands are just as
at fault. Labels are a business, they NEED to make money in order to keep putting shit out. If you dont read thru the contract, or not question
different things, getting fucked is inevitable. I've known several bands who look at labels almost like a parent. Thinking Daddy label is gonna help
them thru all there woes. Its a bullshit metality. If you want to do anything with music, you gotta push for it. All the time. If the label does most
of the work, they are gonna keep most of the money.
Disclaimer: My responce is meant in a general way. It is not in responce to anyones paticular post or situation or opinion.
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TTF
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The label rarely does most of the work. They don't sit in the shitty rehearsal room with 4 other smelly guys and learn the songs, they don't work in
the studio to make things sound nice, and they don't drive around in a shitty van playing shows for retards for zero dollars.
The basic premise of the music industry goes like this-band writes songs, goes into studio, which the band pays for, the band goes on tour to promote
the album, which the band pays for, the band gets adds in shiny magazines, which the band pays for, the band gets some new gear, which the band pays
for, and on and on while the label takes a small risk by pressing cd's and doing a few ads all the while taking the bulk of the profits (stealing the
bands money).
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blackoutnyhc
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TTF, I didn't realize being in a band was such a horrible, inescapable chore. Sounds like your band experience was pretty joyless. Too bad. IMHO, when
someone CHOSES to be in a BAND, it is their JOB to BE in that room and write songs, TO PLAY shows, and CREATE A FANBASE and STORY to build THEIR
BAND. If the only motivation is a "career" then becoming an "artist" was the wrong personal choice for that person.
To say that labels take no risk is competely unfair. All of the money that comes out of the bands share (i.e. recoupable costs such as "RECORDING" and
"TOUR SUPPORT") is money that the label is not sure they will make back. It's contingent upon the band ACTUALLY SELLING RECORDS. Let's not forget
about expenses regarding rent, electricity, phone, people to actually pack the envelopes, do the design, manage web site, collect from distributors.
Bands don't care becuase, it's not their money- it's a loan that they are never compelled to repay. But...the label has to PREPAY all of these
expenses in the hope (not guarantee) that the band will sell enough. I've had quite a few bands break up shortly after an album release and I just
have to eat it and smile.
I don't ask for a hug or a cookie when I lose or make a stupid decision (oh and I have) because that's MY job.
Also, bands love to bitch about labels, but god forbid they want to do some of the mundane office work that doing a label involves, or how difficult
it is to get hundreds of individuals at distributors, magazines, pressing plants, designers, studios, mastering facilities to come together to even
sell a few thousand records. It's all a Boris Karloff science experiment, all the time.
The problem with punk being so "popular" is that lots of people in a two bit band make demands like Axl Rose before they sell record one, or think
that the world owes them something becuase they play guitar in a band that has 1500 myspace friends. My day does not involve doing lines of blow off
Mariah Carey's ass and stumbling to my Learjet for a jaunt to the Hamptons for brunch with P.Diddy- and I'm sure Andy Thorp's doesn't either.
I'm not trying to be a douchebag but I agree with MyOwnWay.
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newbreedbrian
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your comments are definately valid but theres a huge difference between an indie label who essentially started the label because they love music and a
major label who essentially views music as a commodity, no different than selling cheez whiz or stereos. keep in mind the discussion here is on the
latter. sinking 200 grand into a band is hardly putting their ass on the line. the people at those labels arent making fuck all and putting their jobs
on the line to try and tour. they're not coming back from tour and scrambling to make their rent. and yes, you can end up in debt to a major label.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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blackoutnyhc
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I agree 100% about the majors- you can get totally killed, or just plain ignored (as you will see when you watch the Sheer Terror DVD). You are
correct in assuming the 56 year old fatcat with a 2 million dollar salary and marble office is not going to give one shit about any band who isn't
meeting expectations.
Being on a major that has the money to develop the band and doesn't care is worse than an indie that can't afford to do what they want for you.
But my question is... when everyone appears to know this, why the rush to grab for the brass ring and try for the "major" deal- like it's the cure to
all the problems when it clearly is not? THe problem is not the "dealer" offering the drug... the problem is with the bands buying into the hype
someone is selling you.
I've encountered alot of bands who look at the major deal as the "endgame", and are under some grand delusion that it's a cruise after the contract is
signed.... but to be successful you need to redouble your personal effort in making it work. You need to have a management and booking infrastructure
in place that can have a good working relationship with the major. Only then do you stand a snowball's chance in hell.
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TTF
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BlackoutNYHC, being in a band is about the only joy in my life. 15 years and I still drive 6 hours round trip to sit in that smelly room with the
smelly guys. It can be fun, it can be creative, but it is work. Do you think a writer or a painter has a fucking ball sitting there hour after hour
doing what they do? Now I get the point, you're a label guy, perhaps you're Bill Wilson (Blackout Records) and you can speak from your experience and
I'll speak from mine.
One of my main gripes is that there is no legal recourse for auditing the records of the pressing plant that the label used to find out how many
albums have been pressed. Not on a major, not on an indie. That allows record label guy to, in essence, make up a number with no possiblity of
getting caught.
Let's assume you do do tons of hard work, have a great website, mp3's, etc (Like Thorp). Does that entitle you to the bulk of the gross profits? I
know that you need to take the $$$ from your big sellers to help pay for the bands that didn't pan out, but in the days of internet promotion and
digital technology, how much is that investment?
Since I'm more familiar with the metal world these days than the hardcore, I'd like to know why a band like Cannibal Corpse (Yuck) is almost the only
band able to make aliving from playing music? Why do outwardly appearing succesful bands like Dillinger Escape Plan, who sell a shitload of records,
have to either tour like dogs or work shit jobs in between tours? I think the answer is that most bands are left with the choice of either signing a
bad contract or no contract at all.
It's good to hear the label side of things. It doesn't change my opinion, but it's good to hear both sides. Without labels their would still be
music, with out music their would be ???
15 years and still waiting for a hug and a cookie, Todd Starkweather.
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newbreedbrian
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people reach for that "brass ring" for a multitude of reasons. greed is one of them. much as people will go on tv and eat a buffalo penis and climb in
a box full of rats for a chance at some cash, there will always be people chasing that major label deal. vanity is another, for whatever reason
celebrity is important to a large percentage of the population. naivite is one of the biggers reasons. i dont think it's accurate to suggest that its
like the drug user/drug dealer relationship. we know hard drugs are bad for us, there's noone being mislead there. ask a random person on the street
how much a band would make for selling 200,000 records on a major label. what people dont realize is for every band that sells a million records on
sony, there a many more signed (owned) by that label that will be a flop and end up in debt to said label and/or languishing on there with little to
no support from the label. its funny, over the last couple of years being on thorp ive had a number of people say stuff like "wow, you guys must be
making some serious cash". right. i work 6 days a week at a job i fucking loathe to pay my bills. we pay our jam space from show money and thats about
it. that's not a diss on andy/thorp in the slightest. he's been amazing and done all he said and more. im talking about people's perceptions. as for
todd's comment about pressing #'s im always curious about that stuff myself(again not with thorp, but definately with our last label). some of the
largest indie labels have had horrible reputations for ripping off bands over the years (alternative tentacles, lookout, sst, subpop). and its
definately not as simple as the whole 15 year old kid living with mommy calling every major label band a sellout. alot of my favorite records came out
on major, "built to last" being a prime example. its just amazing that all the music industry leeches (lawyers, managers, etc) are the ones making the
coin off a bands work. there a certainly alot of people that do see a major deal as the be all end all of playing music and will believe anything
they're told. me? i choose to be a negative fuck and not trust people. now where's that crucifucks record........
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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jonnynewbreed
Posting Freak
Posts: 1091
Registered: 4-4-2003
Location: Dartmouth, nova scotia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Quite nice actually.
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Brian...that is the most well thought out, inteligent thing I have ever read from you. Chin Chin old chap, obviously some thought went into that
statement and I commend you for it.
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blackoutnyhc
Junior Member
Posts: 28
Registered: 4-16-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: your mom scream in ecstasy
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It's very hard to make a living in independent rock on the band side OR the label side on a consistent basis. In theory, the process should be about
creating a win-win situation for both the band and label. However, It has been my experience that I've put the needs of a band above my own quite a
few times, only to have them not reciprocate. Is it the labels job to put the bands first when clearly the bands will look for any opportunity to
further their own career? (and have people accept it as the excuse.)
Also.. is it ok for a band to take a loan from the label to buy a van, and then fuck them on CD's that they agreed to pay for? And when the label
recoups that money from royalties, becuase the band never paid, there's angry remarks said about them in fanzines or mesage boards- the fans accept it
as gospel.
Bands are JUST as selfish as anyone at a record label (or any human) for that matter. And there is a willfull ignorance and dismissal of how things
like distribution work or using hearsay from the rumormill as fact about how things work. There is a general assumption about being in a band. Most
people's "inside view" of the music business comes through the media, MTV Cribs, and people believing the images conjured up by some video director to
make things seem way more than they are.
The best thing for bands to do to avoid the pitfalls of their brethren is truly educate themselves on the process... become informed and understand
what is going within their business and don't expet the world on a silver platter. But it's an effort to stay informed (and given the results of our
last Presidential election- America in general has the awful habit of embracing HEARSAY over FACT. )
Like I said in my first post, most people in bands do not have the acumen nor the desire to do what it takes on the "business" side to make a band
happen. Some people write great songs, or play bass like a champ, others give good spreadsheet. I'm better at the latter- so I put my skills to use in
the scene where there would do the most good. Even if the majors go the way of the dinosaur, some type of marketing and distribution management will
ALWAYS be needed by bands.
I look at the sum total of what I got/get from my affilation with punk and indie rock on many levels... I got to travel all over the world with my
friends, feel like I've really been a part of something all of these years, and have had memories that alot of people wish they had. I'm going to
embrace those far longer than soundscanning 30,000 albums.
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TTF
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
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Hey blackoutnyc, thanks for not turning this thing into a corny little internet fight. When we started Starkweather we knew we had no chance at
making a living as a band and we never wavered from that belief. I'm still not looking for a Cribs worthy house or an Escalade, I'd like to just
break even.
Using the Albini article to boost my point was overkill and an overstatement but I still believe the general sentiment is correct. In many ways it's
even more difficult to accept getting taken by people you considered friends especially when to me hardcore has always been more about ethics than
music. I know of TooDamnHypes struggles with trying to get money from Dutch East distribution and I also know that when it was time to get paid, Met
got paid first and was able to live marginally better than I was living at the time. I know that Edison Recordings (John Dudeck) sold somewhere in
the neighborhood of 15,000 copies of our 'Into the Wire' ep and we recieved $1,200 to record and approximately $1,300 in merchandise. Let's assume he
sold the ep wholesale for 4 bucks, which is an underestimation. After recouping his losses there had to be SOMETHING left of the $60,000 dollars,
don't you think?
Now shame on us for doing business with friends, for not hiring a lawyer ($$$), for making the same mistake again and again, but this is fucking
hardcore and things were SUPPOSED to be different. There was a time when I truly believed that and believed in the power of music. I guess we all
grow up.
Here's a list of my expenses to keep doing Starkweather at the level we're at now (you know, the level where noone knows who we are): Practice space:
$300/month, trip to Philly for practice: $60 round trip, miscellaneous equipment upkeep: $100/month. Not a huge amount but it still hurts.
At the end of the day the most important part of this whole thing is stated in your last paragraph. Will I remember getting paid nothing for 15 years
of work or will I remember the amazing shows with our friends in Merauder, Confusion, All Out War, playing the Trocadero, the incredible Albany shows,
the trip to Boston with Rennie and Michelle to see Poison Idea at the Rat (I think you were there!). Of course that stuff is the most important but
breaking even would be a huge victory. Now how about a hug.
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blackoutnyhc
Junior Member
Posts: 28
Registered: 4-16-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: your mom scream in ecstasy
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Nah, I don't fight on these things, I just wanted to put in my two cents on the record label side and let everyone know this is not an entirely
one-sided discourse.
Yes, if you sold 15,000 copies of a record an only got $2500 in advances there's something weird about that. And if 1/10th of the people who work at
majors had the same ideals as we both wrote in our last paragraphs, the major game would be better... but we gotta play the hand we're dealt and it's
filled with powerhungry, inept, and emotionally frail individuals on all sides of the aisle.
I guess the best thing to come from this back and forth as a "lesson" to aspiring band is even though this is "hardcore", to:
a) get it in writing
b) truly understand what you are agreeing to.
Consider yourself hugged in a sportsmanlike fashion.
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